Politics as a Collective Assignment with Marianne Williamson

Understanding our influence, and claiming our role in governance.

For more than four decades, Marianne Williamson has been a leader of spiritually progressive circles, as well as the author of 16 books, four of which have been #1 New York Times best sellers. Two of her books center on American politics: Healing the Soul of America and A Politics of Love. 

Williamson has also been a grass roots activist for 35 years, starting with founding Project Angel Food, a non-profit organization that has delivered more than 18 million meals to ill and dying homebound patients in the Los Angeles area since 1989. The group was created to help people suffering from the ravages of HIV/AIDS. She has also worked throughout her career on poverty, anti-hunger and racial reconciliation issues. In 2004, she co-founded The Peace Alliance supporting the creation of a U.S. Department of Peace, and hosted The Sister Giant Conferences that introduced thousands of women to ways they could participate more effectively in the political process. Williamson ran for the Democratic nomination for President in 2020, bringing to the debate stage the issues of reparations and race in America, environmental justice, U.S. policy in Latin America, America’s high rate of chronic illness, and the fact that our healthcare system is more of a sickness care system. She ran again for the nomination in 2024.

This interview has been transcribed from audio, with some revised sections.

INL: : You’re widely recognized for your work in personal transformation, your workshops on A Course in Miracles, and your numerous books. How did your background shape your approach to entering the political landscape?

Marianne: To me, politics is simply our collective behavior. So the same principles that prevail within our personal journey through life prevail within our collective journey. When I began my career in the 1980s, particularly when I began to be very active with people with AIDS and other critical illnesses, I found myself from that time forward very up close and personal with people whose lives were going through crises. And at that time, the people I met, for the most part, the crisis was the exception and not the rule in their lives.

What I noticed 20 years later was how many people I encountered for whom the crisis was the rule and not the exception. So, for instance, the crisis was not just that they had been diagnosed with cancer, the crisis was that they had no medical insurance. The crisis was not just that they couldn't find a job, the crisis was that one job wasn't enough to be able to support their family.

I began to realize that there were systemic problems in this society, particularly economic, social, and political problems, which left out so many people. And then the system says to clergy, therapists, mental health counselors, and so forth, ‘Do what you can to help them cope, to help them be more resilient through this.’

I realized something—no amount of private charity (and I had been very involved in nonprofit organizing and founding organizations), no amount of crisis counseling, no amount of spiritual transformation—can compensate for a basic lack of justice; economic justice, social justice in this country.

I would often say to people in the higher consciousness and transformational community, ‘We are the last people who should be sitting out on these larger economic and social questions, because if you know what changes one heart, you're the one who has a clue as to what will change the world.’ And in our collective political behavior, on the level of policy, no differently than on the level of personal behavior, lack of ethics, lack of compassion, lack of soulfulness and empathy—it's going to cause you problems in your personal life, and it's going to cause problems in a society as well. I certainly think that the situation we're living in today bears that out.

Photo bt Akiomi Kuroda.

INL: Reflecting on your presidential campaign, what were some of the learnings you walked away with about America’s political system?

Marianne: America's political system is extremely corrupt. It is so unduly influenced by money, particularly corporate money, that short-term profits for huge corporate entities now supersede the principles of humanitarian values and democracy itself.

Representative democracy, which is profound and even sacred, is the very idea that the wisdom of the average person—no matter whether you're rich or poor—matters. If you have a free press so that people have access to information, you have freedom of assembly so they can discuss things, and education so that theoretically people have been trained in critical thought. Those are the ideals, of course. The idea of representative democracy is that the wisdom emerging from the people should become the governing power. That's what Jefferson said: 'the only safe repository for power is in the hands of the people.'

I saw, running for president twice, the decency of people, the decency of voters, the intelligence of voters. It left me with a very, very strong conviction that the problem is not with the American people. However, the political system, the political establishment, as it now exists, does more to obstruct and to block the real emergence of the voices of the people, and therefore the will of the people, than most people might even realize. That disconnect is the danger we find ourselves in. 

What I saw about the political system is how deeply corrupt it is. But what I saw about people is how decent and intelligent the American people are—no more than any other country, but no less than any other country. It's just that the people who are dominant within the political systems too often seem to know very little about what's going on out there. Once again, we're seeing the consequences of that right now.

Public Trust in Government: 1958-2024. Pew Research Center.

INL: Your approach while running for President centered on love and compassion as essential components of governance and societal well-being. What was, and what is now your vision for a more equitable society? 

Marianne: First of all, my vision for a more equitable society is that there should be one. You know, in the 1970s, the average American couple could afford a car, could afford a house, could afford to take yearly vacation, could afford for one parent to stay home if they chose to, and could afford to send their kids to college. That was in the 1970s. It didn't just come out of nowhere that that is no longer true. Over the last 50 years, there has been a transfer of $50 trillion of wealth away from 90 percent of the people.

Over the last 50 years, there has been a transfer of $50 trillion of wealth away from 90 percent of the people.

What that bespeaks is America reneging on its commitment to an equitable society. A commitment to an equitable society means that you put the capacity of people to thrive in their lives up on top of your priority list. That people have health care should be more important than that insurance companies make a profit; that our children are safe should have higher priority than profits for gun manufacturers; that our foods are not filled with carcinogens should have higher priority than the profits that are made for big food companies; that pesticides are not dangerous and threatening to a child's developing brain should have higher priority than chemical company profits; that our food should be more important than Big Ag; that our climate is not imploding should be more important than profits for Big Oil; and that all military action should be deeply righteous, and that no military projects should be undertaken except under absolute need and the most sober analysis of foreign affairs. That should come before the undue influence of the military-industrial complex. So this is what I mean. We have changed our social contract in this country.

So when you ask, "What’s my vision for a more equitable society?"—my vision is that we commit to having one.

So when you ask, "What’s my vision for a more equitable society?"—my vision is that we commit to having one, and we do not now. We do not operate in such a way that the bottom line is the achievement of an equitable society. Sometimes, if you talk about things being more equitable, people will yell that you’re a socialist or even a communist. I mean, it’s ridiculous at this point. 

Marianne Williamson speaking with attendees at the 2019 Iowa Democratic Wing Ding at Surf Ballroom in Clear Lake, Iowa. Photo by Gage Skidmore.

INL: You’ve spoken of the need for increased citizen involvement in governance, and even said that “the American people have been trained to expect too little”.  Can you expand upon this? Do you have ideas on what is needed to move people from passive spectatorship to active participation?

Marianne: Well, look at every advanced nation in the world. Everyone except us has universal health care, and tuition-free college and tech school is common in other advanced democracies. You know what's interesting about being an older person: we have a memory of a time when it wasn't like this, when it wasn't so hard. When I was growing up, Blue Cross/Blue Shield was a nonprofit. 

Now we have too many generations who were brought up with so little provided by their own government, in comparison to what the citizens of other advanced nations have just come to expect. They say, ‘Yeah, this is what our taxes pay for.’ Our taxes now go, in many cases, to support the very, very richest among us—basically, to support the profits of the military-industrial complex and so forth.

At this point, people are kind of depressed about the whole thing and have been turned into spectators. The people have a big role and a big responsibility to play here as well. We have to wake up. And I think a lot of us thought, ‘Well, I'm a Republican, so as long as Republicans win, we’ll be cool,’ or ‘I'm a Democrat, so as long as the Democrats win, I’ll be cool.’ But anybody who's still thinking that really—I submit—that they might want to at least consider awakening from that delusional perspective in which you think that your highest, best wishes and yearnings for our country are necessarily being represented by the political system as it is.

We have to educate ourselves. We have to be very active in all levels of government, not just federal elections but local elections and in community. We don't have local newspapers the way we once did. You have to understand what's going on. You have to attend city council meetings.

I used to say on my campaign that a lot of politicians would come to me and say, ‘I want to go to Washington and fight for you.’ And I would say that's not what I'm saying. That's not my idea of a good time. I want to go to Washington and co-create with you—a better America. And the forces I am going to be dealing with in Washington, those forces are in your state capitals—those forces are in your local communities—but we're going to do this together.

There is no substitute for an ethical revolution. There is no substitute for an awakening with the people and the awakening of our minds. And this idea of disconnecting from politics. Well, you disconnect from politics enough, what do you get? You get what we've got. 

Cycles of Political Revolution.

There is no substitute for an ethical revolution. There is no substitute for an awakening with the people and the awakening of our minds. And this idea of disconnecting from politics. Well, you disconnect from politics enough, what do you get? You get what we've got. 

In the political parties, when someone is running for Congress and is approached by the party, the party will ask, “Can you self-fund?” “Can you self-fund?” translates to, “Do you have a million dollars lying around that you can afford to risk?” Well, how many Americans have a million dollars lying around that they can afford to risk? So then, when people say, “We don't understand why they're not making policies that help the average American,” it’s because so few average Americans are making the laws. There are no three to five easy steps to fixing all this—it has gone on too long and become too complicated.

But it begins with a commitment inside our own hearts: Yes, I will be available, and I will play whatever part I feel moved in my heart that I can play. We all have our individual assignments—you’re a scientist, an artist, a healer. Politics is a collective assignment, and if all of us embrace our roles as citizens, we can rise to meet the occasion.

A Politics of Love by Marianne Williamson.

I was at breakfast this morning, and somebody—I don't remember his exact words—but he was talking like, “I'm not a political person. I don't know anything.” And that's what they've convinced people. There's not supposed to be a political class in this country. If you are 18 or older, this thing belongs to you. You're responsible for this. So it's a psychological, characterological shift that's necessary at this point in order for us to be people who know how to endure these chaotic times and, most importantly, to transform them. That will only become more and more important in the weeks and months ahead.

INL: Leadership is often defined by service to others, from religious teachings to Enlightenment philosophy and the U.S. Constitution. What is your perspective of a leader's role in governance? And how do you reconcile this with today’s political landscape?

Marianne: This is the 21st century, and too much of America's politics is stuck back in 1995. It's a very 20th century perspective. Leadership in the 21st century is not top down. We're moving from a dominator model to a collaboration model, a partnership model, of society in general. So to me, the greatest leader is not someone who just dictates what they think is best but holds the space for the genius of others. Holds the space—and that's what America should be—that every person feels supported in becoming their best, their most intelligent, their wisest, and that's what I think a great leader is. That's straight out of the Tao Te Ching. What do they say, that ‘a great leader is one nobody even notices that there was anybody behind this’? Things just seem to work. So to me, a leader is someone who has their eye on the possibilities that are provided by the creation of a space in which everyone is invited to thrive.

That's how you take care of a society.

That's why I felt so strongly in my campaign about children. If we want a great economy in 20 years, the best thing you can do right now is to take better care of those who are 10 years old today, 10 years old and younger today. But that kind of 21st century thinking—whole-person thinking, holistic thinking, and what I call integrative politics—the people are ready for that because it's actually the story of today. It's how people are talking in business, it’s how people are talking in the sciences, in healing, in food, and in relationships. It's not “kooky” as they would have you believe. The fact that the political establishment is so stuck in the past, they should be considered the fringe ones. But they, as is so often the case in American history (and I'm sure it's been in the histories of other countries as well), some of the most regressive thinkers and systems—they're the ones with the money, they're the ones with the technological power, they're the ones with the business power, and they're the ones with the political power. That's why we're in trouble. But I think that we're temporarily in trouble, if we, the people, are willing to wake up.

"The Tao that can be drawn is not the eternal Tao" - Artwork by Tim Hjersted.

INL: How do you perceive our capacity for empathy and stewardship, both toward one another and our planet? In what ways do you believe these qualities can be strengthened for a more harmonious coexistence with nature?

Marianne: The other day I was in Tennessee and I was talking to a woman who went through the horrifying effects of—was it Milton or Helene? I think it was hurricane Helene that had such devastating effects on Asheville. But of course, those were two hurricanes right next to each other. And she was telling stories that were very similar to stories I heard from other people, including a friend of mine who had a tornado in her neighborhood recently. You saw it in 9/11. Sometimes, tragedy and crisis brings out the best in us. That's when you see, nobody's asking who's a Trump supporter, who's a Harris supporter. People are there. You see, when tragedies happen, that we have that natural empathetic, compassionate nature. We are hardwired for that. But we are dominated by a thought system on this planet that promotes a sense of separation, isolation, competition rather than collaboration, judgment rather than forgiveness, and so forth.

Enlightenment on a personal level has to do with dismantling a thought system of fear and separation, and substituting for that, a thought system that is actually natural to our being, but that feels too many times unnatural—which is love, forgiveness, and compassion. Well, now we have to recognize, as I said earlier, that those issues are as relevant to our collective experience as to our personal.

Now, there's a line in A Course in Miracles that says, ‘It's not up to you what you learn; it's merely up to you whether you learn through joy or through pain.’ And that's what the human race is going through right now. You want to learn it now? You want to learn it later? You want to learn to love each other, be good to the earth, be good to the animals. You want to do it later? Those are your only two choices here. You want to learn through wisdom or you want to learn through pain?

I think people want to be good. I think people are naturally good. And it's interesting because if you look at our society—and I think this is true of the world in general—a small proportion of our society, and of our planet, proactively hate, but the problem is that manifestation emerges from conviction. The haters in our country today have conviction. The lovers are a little too casual about the whole thing. So if you have 10 people who proactively hate, and a hundred people who are proactively like, ‘Hey, I just want everybody to be happy. I want to be nice to everybody, and want everybody to be nice to me. I want us to take care of our kids. Yea, I want everything to be fair.’ But the people who hate are willing to work 24/7 to effectuate their worldview, and those of us who love are still thinking: ‘Let's have some white wine and brie,’ and are like, ‘Oh, this is nice, let's do this, and let's all be more loving, and listen if you need me to help I have Tuesdays and Thursdays between 2-4 p.m.’ Then why is anybody surprised? A Course in Miracles says: Miracles arise from conviction.

The days of the ditzy—that's over. We've got to stop coddling ourselves, and we have to stop coddling it in each other, including with friends asking, ‘Are you okay? How's your trauma today?’ And I don't say this as a person who hasn't known trauma, but we've got to start saying to each other: ‘What great, amazing thing are you doing that could help save the world, and how can I help?’ That's got to become a social habit. We have allowed ourselves to be infantilized. We have too many women behaving like girls and too many men behaving like boys, and the system just loves that because that makes us very easy to manipulate and very easy to control.

Marianne Williamson speaking in New York, 2023.

INL: What message would you like to share with our audience that you believe is vital for navigating our collective future?

Marianne: The paradigm of politics and political change that is needed now is an integrative model, just like we moved years ago from an allopathic model of medicine to an integrative model of medicine. There was a time when people didn't appreciate the importance of their diet, the importance of exercise, and the importance of lifestyle in proactively creating health. They just waited until they got sick and then would seek through external remedies to suppress or to eradicate symptoms. That moved into alternative medicine, complementary medicine, and finally landed where it belonged—in integrative medicine: body, mind, and spirit.

We are stuck in a level of political change which is basically allopathic. We just treat symptoms. And at this point, we're playing whack-a-mole. Something's always breaking down. We have to get into root cause. We have to get into proactively creating peace through justice and brotherhood, as Martin Luther King would say, just like we have to proactively create health. We have to think about everything differently. We have to think about not only what we need to do, but who we need to be—who we need to be, number one—to even discern what we need to do. Number two, to have the ability to actually be able to do it. There's a lot of characterological change that has to occur now in order for us to wage the kinds of transformational processes that need to occur at this point.

That's what nonviolent political philosophy is, that, as Gandhi said, the end is inherent in the means. So, I think this is a moment when it is very easy to spiral down into complete disconnection, nullification of your feelings, self-medicate, depression, anxiety, because if you just look at what's happening on the outside, there's a lot of reason for that. But we've had tough times in this country before, and we've had rough times in this world before, and we need to identify with the problem solvers who persevered, who surely—the suffragists and the abolitionists and the civil rights workers and the early labor organizers had very desperate times and very desperate days—but they kept going because they had faith in their vision of possibility for themselves, their children, and for their descendants. And that's what we have to have. And that's a kind of personal maturity, and personal dedication and devotion, that is necessary at this time.

The "Great Demand" float in the Woman Suffrage Procession, March 3, 1913. The day before Woodrow Wilson's presidential inauguration, thousands of women marched along Pennsylvania Avenue—the same route that the inaugural parade would take the next day.

Now, what each person then is led to do from that place—that, to me, comes from personal guidance. You talk to people, you learn, you listen. But deepen your own listening. That's why I always say that my own personal formula is: ‘You pray in the morning, and then you kick ass in the afternoon.’ You have to take care of the level of the being and the level of the doing. And that's what the integrative approach is—the yin and the yang, the feminine and the masculine. And I think at this point, we just need to accept this won't happen quickly, but we can get started.

I think something beautiful, and many miracles, will emerge as we do.

You can learn more about Marianne Williamson and her books here, as well as find information about her presidential campaign here.